so
[Music]
ah it's a beautiful beautiful thing
we're back after defcon hanging out and
we have not had a chance uh to catch up
yet uh between the gulo the gator uh
gallery me and him we're snuggling at
def con but we had uh an opportunity to
come back together uh yeah 1k
subscribers by the way thank you for
that that is a beautiful beautiful thing
yeah uh so we wanted to talk about our
defcon experiences they are massively
different between all of us some of us
uh were
on site other us were running a contest
uh darknet and we were kind of all over
the place and we definitely have stories
to share so let's just jump over to like
all of us
you guys can are you hydrated have you
gotten enough sleep i'm on like my
fourth cup of coffee like i'm i'm doing
great
i got my nest quick
death wish coffee we're good there i
i'll tell you what uh 12 hours of
straight sleep uh from sunday evening to
monday morning i should say monday
afternoon and i recovered beautifully
after that it was great
i uh i had to go to another conference
immediately following defcon so i didn't
get my first good night's sleep until
yesterday
until
yeah
i feel like i actually got a decent
amount of sleep at def con well i i say
that kind of first two days were like
good i got a good amount of sleep i
would wake up me and um skyria would
make coffee in the morning which was
great i would just like but and mostly i
went down to her room like a hobo
begging for hot water because i had my
french breasts and i had my coffee but i
had no access to hot water so i'd be
like can i have some water every morning
are you camping
you
do not sacrifice the best part of waking
up in vegas is most definitely not
folgers in your cup it's an ethiopian
yogurt chef lightly roasted
brewed at like 192. okay sorry uh but no
it wasn't you do you hand you have one
of those hipster hand grinders did you
did you sit there for 30 minutes hand
grinding your coffee you know you know
what it is hipster hand grind no i i i
have i have a lido
which is around espresso thank you very
much it can go that fine yeah you don't
i don't mess around with coffee you make
sure you you do that crap right at def
con
uh and then four cups later you're ready
to hit the conference floor i
i i that was like my morning and then
all of a sudden gallery was like hey you
know what we should do we should do the
pool party and you could shoot it then
the next that night he's like you could
also go and like
jump in the pool and it's like
3 a.m and yeah you just you wrecked my
sleep at the conference
yeah so so for for viewers who have not
gone and have not experienced it there's
a there's a three two one rule for a
reason which is three hours of sleep two
meals a day one shower a day and uh
yeah that you know the three hours of
sleep
sometimes it's adhered to
like it's a it's more of a
recommendation it's more of a guideline
than a rule
it generally happens in the wee hours of
the morning between like 6 a.m and 9 00
a.m
really that's why they don't have the
talks and conferences starting until 10
o'clock right
oh gosh oh that's a good question that's
a great question could you ex explain
your defcon experience in one word
my see mine is like you know in
re-watching so many of my videos i re
like i have a plan to put a video out on
this because i i think i may i want to
do over i want to def con do over uh
because i think i made a big mistake in
some again first time all of that i'll
go into it in the video
but i used a couple words all the time
and it started coming off like the lego
movie where it's like everything is
awesome oh gosh but like i was just so
excited to be doing video and uh
shooting it all like i was i was
freaking pumped like all the time
even without the caffeine but it is
awesome it's just it was awesome
so awesome to be back among the family
again hanging out uh enjoying each
other's company uh feeling like that
technical like energy at def con uh talk
and then just bumping into people like
the first few videos i think i i those
were the ones i think were my favorite
was helming hanging out with helmet khan
bumping into
jrwr like that was awesome hearing like
what he was doing his helmet uh jan
uh i i think those ones were the one
like that's what i need i needed that in
my life what about you what's the one
word what's the one word though silk oh
it's awesome awesome just it was awesome
it's awesome it's just gonna go
everything is awesome all the time
do you guys have one word
uh
yeah i mean i think it's one word i
think it's technically two but i think
you can make it one word like madonna
and and that would be banana hammock
i was gonna say mankini but yes okay
like share one word
by the way i did watch both in the
airplane avengers and deadpool
and like there's just something about at
the end when that song comes on oh it's
so good it's like so good
absolutely
let's go through the one words and then
we'll we'll jump into the actual con
my one word for defcon this year
would be
epic you you had an epic time darknet
has stories that is insane this year was
cray cray it was a lot of fun and thanks
to everybody who is online and boots on
ground too for that we can go into it a
little bit later but gulo what's your
word
smelly
i i tried to avoid the 3-2-1 stuff so
people could smell me through my webcam
but then my eyes started to water
sometime saturday night and i had the
cave
only gulo could go to defcon virtually
and still smell it
like i i was thinking to myself it's
like
knowing gullo's challenges and knowing
the one-way hash role that he did it was
poop by the way it's totally poop it's
always poop uh is i'm wondering i could
just imagine him going you know i have a
great challenge and then realizing he
just gooned himself there he's like i
got a challenge for you guys oh crap
this backfired really hard
you got gas masks i'm good
that was like the hardest part at
conference this year for me was like
audio like i think we we got a good
groove about halfway through of how to
do the audio for videos
but yeah some people were wearing masks
some people wearing two masks some
people wearing a matte like a gas mask
and it was remarkably hard to capture
good audio there
for what it's worth i think you did a
fantastic job
they're giving your microphone
you lick your microphone you slide it
inside their mask
and then they talk and then you can
remove it
[Laughter]
incredible
uh so uh what i what i really want to
hear is because i think the viewers got
a chance to see a bunch of silk and i
throughout the conference and as we're
posting more videos
i feel like i missed out on an entire
conference online
so i want to hear what the hell happened
online because there was a whole we
talked about this before it felt like
there were two conferences happening and
or were going to happen and as it turns
out that's effectively what happened
there were two conferences so i want to
hear about what went on in the gulo and
gator side of defcon what what did you
guys get up to
by the way before we jump in thank you
thank you for rating our channel this is
great we're just talking about def con
and uh our experiences and
and gary just brought up a good point
which was it felt like two conferences
was one in one and we missed like half
of it so gator over to you what was
virtual like
so
virtual first day
was quiet because we didn't have our
contest start until friday and i will
tell you what i had fomo pretty damn
hard because i'm seeing people do stuff
online i'm seeing the talks go on online
i'm seeing a lot everybody's psyched
actually getting through the lines and
getting into def con itself uh
by
friday night
when we went through we had been open
for the entire day uh then we had been
able to go join a couple of the
different virtual artists and then
seeing the size of the rooms of people
there in vegas going through and
partying and
rocking out to whatever artist was that
night my fomo started to die down a bit
for the positive side the technical
talks that were being streamed
didn't have nearly as many issues as
there were in the past so that was
fantastic so many different channels for
you to be able to tune into
the live soma fm i would say was
actually the thing that had the most
hiccups compared to the talks that were
given the talks were just smooth one
right after another no problems uh for
the second year of being online i will
say that defcon really tuned in how and
where they're having people interact
with folks uh inside a discord and the
same goes for the villages too i
pretty butter smooth i did not get a
chance to be able to attend any
workshops this time around with that i
can actually hand it over to gulo and
google can talk about it
yeah i got butt hurt
so friday come friday comes along and
i'm like
i'm going to avoid the darknet the
entire con and i'm just going to do
villages so i set up three villages i
had my primary my secondary and my oh
god none of the first two worked
none of the villages that i chose worked
oh no i checked in all day on friday and
i couldn't find crap on them and i'm
like well shit now i have to go to the
darknet and do stuff there this sucks
oh god i latched him to the table and he
was not allowed to leave
and then i was on webcam for like the
next 72 hours
i i love by the way for all of us who
have been involved in darknet over the
past couple years like we kind of
decided to take rook we're gonna step
back from it and then it just so we can
go and enjoy the con and then def con 27
happened it's like safe mode rock oh
okay well we're we're enjoying the con
the next year and then it shifted into
the def con 28 and it's like this hybrid
moaning mark
you know at one point we will be able to
step away from the contest and enjoy the
con and i don't know when that's going
to be but it was it was not this year
hey so
it's defcon 29 was hybrid
yeah you you were off by one
20. you know 28 was set yeah 28 was safe
mode
28 29. okay this is what prep this is
what def con does too drinking
on the in-person side i will tell you
so i well let's start with like the not
so good the conference was small it was
legitimately small um you know it was
basically two major big rooms and then a
couple of villages all you know put off
to the side and stuff and
you you could tell it was palpable it
was not the same as a previous as
previous conferences like you could you
could make the rounds in one day and see
pretty much everything that there was
there and that that was okay that was
actually kind of nice in some senses
but
um you know you got to do some funky
things some fun things like they had the
the paper airplane uh you know village
thing inside of the aerospace village
and that was nice and it was definitely
a i think i think it would be nice in
future years uh
because they had that space this year to
do that it definitely gave people
creative thoughts where the aerospace
village was like how do we turn this
into a contest and how do we add you
know legitimate hacking into it and how
do we you know i think it would be
really cool if we were like you know
hacker paper airplanes where there's
actual you know
hardware components to it and who can
get the furthest or who can get it
autonomous or who can get something like
that but it has to primarily be made out
of paper and maybe they use like uh i
don't know
things that we're thinking about in the
future would be fun
i
the contest i was laughing because we
did so we did a video on that one but
the one that won again they weren't like
they were saying like which one went
well and which one went furthest but the
one that that one
wasn't an airplane they just made a
javelin out of it and just javelined it
across and at one point they're like
okay we're gonna hurt someone with these
so they put up nets on both sides or at
least on one side so it wouldn't fly
into people at the car hacking village
but it was
yeah i i agree with gauri like it was it
was very different this year uh i i
wasn't defcon 16 was my first so i don't
go back to like the alexis park days but
it it was only like i think they ended
up announcing it was like right around 8
300 people it didn't feel like that
because it was in paris valleys which we
have had conferences up to like 30 000
in that space
so
having it at 68 like you weren't bumping
into people in the hallways uh you had a
lot of space even like at the conference
the vendor area like six vendors pulled
out last minute so they had space
available and they didn't close off the
room so there's only like
four
yeah there was five and and to give
people to give people context and prior
conferences it was 55 vendors so
one tenth of the vendors showed up so
when i say it was small like
you could
you could stay socially distanced from
people at this defcon like it would not
have been hard for you to stay six feet
away from people and and maintain your
distance maybe going through some of the
choke points going through some of the
doors that would you know you'd have had
a hard time but for the most part
you were not crammed in and there was no
like traffic jams on the way between
valleys and paris right like
no goons having to tell people to stay
in line stay to the right
there was a swag line at the beginning
on friday and and then that resolved
and that was it or thursday whatever it
was thursday there was a swag line on
thursday and then like there was no swag
line after that you just walk up to the
swag table
which is
for anyone who's been that is maybe 300
people
like
god
8 300 people sounds more like the
riviera
and then i did see in the vendor area
uh that keyport was there and i actually
really love that vendor because i
have to every year that i see them i
have to get new keys because i've moved
someplace new
yep and i didn't think that i moved
every year but every time i go to defcon
i have to get a new settings because i
moved again
so i went and did the same thing there
gulo i just bought remotely and i got my
new side
channel as well so that's cool have
other ones from last year so i've got
two or three of their versions
of kits so i finally got my thumb drive
and i got their sim uh kit that you're
able to also plug in so i've been a big
fan of those especially since there's no
jingle in your pocket now which is
fantastic
yep i've got that plastic one as well
yeah
hacker warehouse was the i got the slide
one um
i get the slide one i haven't done it
remotely because i'm really not a fan of
taking photos of my keys and then
sending them to a third party so that's
why i like this to be honest
it's because this i'm not going to open
them up but this one you literally uh
use a a screwdriver to undo and you just
put your full-size key inside which is
great so i'm not sending pictures of it
so the thing that i'd like to go through
and do
on top of that is i also like to add a
yubi key so then i've got a yubikey and
now a thumb drive always with me no
jingles so i would get i upgraded get so
much trouble doing that like i would
forget it was there all the time
right right absolutely depending on
where you work you may or may not be
able to do that
so before we get into the good and the
awesome if you will let's talk about the
bad like the truly bad part and it has
actually i don't think there was a bad
part about def con not really what was
bad
was black hat
because every single person that i
talked to who attended black hat said
almost the same thing which was that was
not a conference
yeah right i heard i heard the same
thing everything anything about i heard
anything i heard about black hat was
like it ruined the ruin the conference
from it like ruined the whole like even
def con like you you just like you know
you get energized at that thing and you
just got that slog from black hat that
kind of just moved into the conference
it was weird
i i really well
full disclosure i don't think any of us
attended black hat so we're hearing this
and we're saying you know second-hand
information so take it for what you
will but the folks that i talked to who
attended said that
the way they did their talks was one it
was fully virtual and to well fully
virtual but you couldn't watch them
online you had to go to the conference
but none of the speakers were present so
you walked into yeah you walked into a
room you sat down and you watched tv
screens and the oh no
and it was not recorded
so gross right and so on top of that
some of the folks uh what was it i think
it was like eight or
almost all of uh the government
presenters and the government people are
supposed to show up which is a normal
which is normal for black hat because
it's the the more you know professional
of the two quote unquote uh they all
pulled out last minute due to covid
which is fine which is totally fine but
like that really apparently like just
cut their content in half or what their
on-site events were going to be in half
um and that's that's unfortunate because
that's not necessarily about black hat's
fault
but then like
it was essentially like show up and talk
to vendors and that was the conference
which is not a conference
automatic conference yeah
uh so that that is for people that went
from black hot to defcon i had to say
the same thing with uh with silk said
which is it set the tone for their whole
week and you know they basically just
weren't happy which i feel really bad
for those folks and i feel a little bad
for black hat having so many people pull
out but at the same time like
that sucks like i just heard it was not
a conference
so i got the opportunity with my
employer to uh
go and attend virtually not in person so
it was the first time ever attending
online and
i will say the talks online were fine
there was a limited amount that we could
go see um versus having the entire thing
open to us
the keynote when they were talking with
sisa and the new leader which is uh jen
easterly was actually an interesting
about our
interview slash deep dive into her
background and where she's trying to go
with cesa um
it was worthwhile in my opinion um i
didn't get to see very many of the other
talks that were going on that was one of
them that i was able to see
um
and she's a geek at heart which is
awesome she's been uh she was going
through and playing with her rubik's
cube there on stage and whatnot but
seeing her background it seems like
she's a little bit more in touch with
where we're at
and how
we as a community need more people
especially in
government positions to say hey this is
how things actually work versus
just your techno babble and passing
bills so
that's a that's a little bit hopeful in
my opinion so that was one good thing
that i had seen virtually at uh black
hat
that's good but didn't know about that
in person
yeah i did hear that a handful of the
talks were good um from folks who were
on the ground that that's you know
actually sat through it so i'm not
saying the content that was there was
bad i'm just saying that the overall
conference that was i heard it was not
good so silk you had something yeah i
was i uh gator brought up a good point
which was i i was actually looking
forward to the the keynote at def con
again they pulled out coved
all good not just but my point was i was
kind of looking forward because i was
really curious because it was going to
be like a
uh interview style with dt and i was
really curious where that was going to
go i i disagree i think there was it was
uh unavoidable downside to defcon there
was pros and cons to this one which was
and it it's gonna tie back to the video
i do plan to do at one point which was
the people like there was there was
because there was there was so every
contest i knew of
whether it was hack fortress whether it
was scav hunt uh there was people
missing and like notable people who i've
known since oakland for 10 years going
to def gun seeing them
and they weren't there
and it threw off some of my vibe of
hanging out with people and seeing them
here like i had plans to do interviews
and again my planning kind of went out
the window for a lot of reasons but that
was the thing in some ways it was really
cool i got to go to the pool party for
the first time
the pool was half empty which was
amazing like i don't know how it
normally is like fuzzy knop was just
like
decimating uh djing like it was so cool
just to see people dancing and the
lights and def con did not pull any
stops like they didn't like they
they had the lighting audio they didn't
like
screw the defcon attendees by going ah
there's not gonna be as many people here
like it was smaller but it was that was
like a huge downside to me was it it was
split and there was no we talked about
this on stream before there was no
winning here it was going to be if it's
hybrid you have ha i had serious fomo
missing out on all the virtual stuff
going on and then i'm guessing anyone
who was virtual is like what am i
missing out in person
uh the talks weren't like i didn't go to
any talks this year they were all
virtual which is great because i could
watch them now but i think like the some
of the impromptu stuff was kind of uh
missed we'll say but yeah it was um
defcon 30 i am really looking forward to
go ahead gulo
i had multiple messages from multiple
people of where are you at we need to go
steal this we need to go light this on
fire we need to go do this
why why aren't you here
i'm getting bored come here and
entertain me
oh so on the steelers i turned into the
defcon circus clown oh
finally
on the stealing front uh we were talking
with skyria and they were cleaning up
the conference
and we're talking to the quartermaster
and we're not talking to the
cornermaster but she was talking to the
quartermaster as they're cleaning
everything up and everything
and they make
the quartermaster goes
huh
no one stole anything this year
so now we know
why
and it's probably because gulo was not
present at defcon 29
everything is going to turn to the
quartermaster i'm i'm countering this
though uh talking with all the sock
goons they're like it was a boring year
nothing was stolen like no massive
fights girl like i always had to laugh
like the goons that run the sock are
always like
nothing happened like nothing terrible
happened that we were needed for
minus one thing which i wish i had the
video prepped
car hacking village
yeah sudden
one all of a sudden a group formed
around one of the cars and at the same
time five people started distracting all
the goons inside the car hacking village
the car was lifted up by the group and
started getting moved outside the room
they got it all the way outside
to registration when a goon promptly
said what are you guys doing drop it in
all scattered
we'll have to find the video because
it's hilarious oh yeah well it's it's on
twitter we'll have to post if you post
it you're awesome but like it was it
what i love about it is like it's the
perfect type of shenanigans for def con
like you have people doing like things
which are like
gross but like this is like the type of
shenanigans like def con kind of
embraces like no guys don't steal the
car and bring it out into the hallway no
no and then all the sock goons are like
you shouldn't do that please keep doing
it i beg of you just keep doing it yeah
the
the other the other shenanigans that no
one really knows about is
the there was a kiddie pool full of
oatmeal that appeared at some point and
no one knows why
yes
i never heard about this online
yeah there's pictures there's pictures
it was dealt with but it showed up over
in the same area and it was over towards
hacker jeopardy and no one can explain
the
oatmeal filled kiddie pool
no no one knows no one knows why it was
there who made it like why what it was
created like it just appeared and no one
said anything and then walked away from
it oh goodness apparently they say
mouse of madness says it was for drunk
hacker history
i would assume it would have been scab
hunt
gula what you got gosh
so
i don't steal that many things i mean i
captured the flag
one year and
i uh may or may not have captured a
hardware hacking village
oh gosh i'm just waiting for him to go
to the third wall and then to the
ceiling to the floor he just brought
death cam back home with
i can see into my closet and i have
another four of those and then i have a
couple of the actual defcon foam signs
and i think i have a floor decal
somewhere as well but i think that's in
storage still
oh i i can't say this
they don't have a name on them like this
is mine they're just sitting there i
don't know who they belong to
i can't i can't say this definitively i
am not a goon i am not speaking for
goons i'm not speaking for the
conference but i can't imagine that they
care about anything that's branded with
the defcon number on it right like if
it's branded con 29
do you like
are you just saying them a chore of
disposing of it is is i i'm just posing
a question there
i'm i'll i'll throw this in again
not speaking as goon or whatnot i am
guessing there is a a category of
off-limits there is a category of
free-for-all and then there's this
little middle category which gullo tends
to find himself in which is
probably fine maybe not but as long as
no one catches you or sees you or tells
you not to do it it's probably a gullo
thing
it's just the gulo category
i think the gulo category has also uh
rubbed off onto other people because
he's right on a lot of people
right there's a there's this is the
crowd that starts following to where
gulo starts doing something like hey
we could do that too and the next thing
you know all the signs are coming down
in the entire conference at the same
time in the closing ceremonies but i
mean so oh they're just doing really
efficient cleanup thanks guys
and then the next thing you know is we
get some really nice interesting
backgrounds in people's uh
webcams so uh apparently the viewers say
hoping to remove the sign
i'm just helping to remove the signs so
that they don't have to pay casino
people to go get forklifts and scissor
lifts to go up there to pull the signs
down
exactly
the viewers you can somehow get those
things down gallery the viewer the
viewers say that the oatmeal was a thing
for drunk hacker history uh some people
had to find a marble in the oatmeal and
your reward for finding the marble was
to get sprayed with a malort super
soaker
uh that sounds like defcon to me
that sounds like me
incredible
absolutely
wow i mean so let's
i was oh no i was just gonna add like i
think the other thing that the event
that happened was at one of the parties
uh dj jackalope
literally brought down the house
part of the chandelier started coming
down because of how hard she dropped the
base part of the drop ceiling started
falling off
and and on that and on that stage there
was this cardboard cut out of putin on
uh on a horse which eventually ended up
with googly eyes on it because of course
there's googly eyes all over defcon uh
yeah but apparent but apparently the
base also caused his head to fall
forward so dj jack lope also decaf
decapitated putin
which like
what a legend she's such a legend like
i found a picture here we go
i'll drop it in the chat where you guys
keep talking
oh yeah that's right
oh it's it's from my i was like wonder
where you pull this image from oh it's
from my twitter feed incredible exactly
right just going through going through
twitter with the hashtag defcon right
lots of awesome fun pictures this year
pull it up did you all see very many
furries out and about oh yeah
they were hanging out at the pool
jamming with the dj they were they were
around con fur con is always amazing
they're the best
i think there are only
three major furry uh for on folks there
okay so fur con is actually starting
today here at noon pacific time so if
you are interested in that go check out
their twitch channel they're starting to
stream for like six hours over on noon
west coast time
there's there's no easy way of getting
this image up i will grab it at one
point and i will figure out oh wait here
we go i can get it up here
i'm having trouble getting it up
actually
no your words not mine
you didn't have that problem last
weekend when you're hanging out with me
because he had that time with you last
weekend
see what what no one realizes like again
this is part of the story to come out is
when i when i was doing video it started
like i was i you know i hadn't i've done
video obviously i have my channel
but i had never done video in front of
other people and it is remarkably
awkward like having your camera up or
even having like
gallery with the full gimbal like
pointing at me and then having people
stand behind him watching you record
uh so we we uh figured out a nice
exercise to make it less awkward and it
most definitely involved taking glamour
shots of gauri which i most definitely
have
and will probably make their way into uh
videos over this next year so you guys
have that look forward too between
glamour shots of that and then uh
closing ceremonies i'm wondering if
that's why it's not online to where
anybody can watch closing ceremonies
anymore because there are a couple
pictures that were uh is that goo that
is uh that's gallery that's definitely
gallery
oh so they did not put the slideshow
they they put it on twitch but they're
not pulling it down to put it up because
those are like you can find the closing
ceremonies
any place
and i'm wondering if it's because uh
gallery there is uh striking a pose you
know what i'm saying
but so i'll throw a little more than
anyone ever wanted to see
[Laughter]
i'm i'm laughing because i'm i was
sitting in the hotel room with ast cell
uh info sister had sent out images uh
and we were going through all of our
images to put into the slideshow and i
walked into ast cell's uh hotel room and
i go i have the image i won i just won
def con there is no one can compete with
this image
i i've won and i show him the image he's
like you
you won and so if anyone can find that
image i probably shouldn't be
encouraging this i'm sorry
look i am wearing my tuxedo so it's you
know i'm fine
but i was i was so happy with this image
in the worst part of the worst part
about it
we organized all the images we threw
them all in the slideshow but none of us
really know like the slideshow goes up
at different times and sometimes it's
not they don't have time to go through
all of it this year i don't know why for
the first time in all of defcon history
they got it up really early so early
that it got to cycle
three times and it cycle not just in
person but for the first time ever it
got to cycle through twitch in youtube
and everywhere else they were live
streaming to show gowri in his uh
tuxedo his tuxedo um three times on
stream so i would be i would laugh my
butt off if like twitch pulled it down
just for that
it wasn't indeed
it wasn't
no he was completely covered
yeah we'll go with that
oh my goodness i'm just searching
through other photos here to see
uh we've posted a couple pictures of the
ceiling so not only did the the ceiling
come down for uh dj jackalope but
apparently part of the uh chandelier as
well so there's a picture of that with
her on twitch that i've posted on
all of our streams
i'm trying to see about some other ones
here as well
because there was one we were just
looking for somebody was talking about
there was still googly eyes all over the
place
so of course that i'm glad to see that
that was still around
um
let's see what else there was
to do
so while you're looking yeah go for it
i was gonna say while you're looking
mouse and madness said i did discover
how to make alex blush though randomly
walk up to him and tell him how much you
love his youtube channel
we were
absolutely astonished by how many people
had watched at least one or some of our
content including streams that
approached us at the con and everyone
was great everyone was absolutely
fantastic so if you guys came up and
talked to us and i'm sure alex you got a
lot more when i wasn't with you but um
you guys were fantastic and it's always
good to see new people and uh yeah i
mean we'll we'll definitely be there
next year doing this again so bring
something interesting to the con and uh
you know
if you want to be on the channel that's
uh that's the game right um but yeah
i'm fully expecting by the way like to
start getting photo but like i might be
doing a video and just people are going
to be jumping in the background but yeah
that
so we've talked about the the bad things
i think we keep transitioning to some of
the good things too but like
specifically like my faith so what
brings me back to the con every year is
the people absolutely and it's funny
because like everyone i asked that
question to which was like what
how long you've been coming to khan you
know what's your handle how long you've
been coming to khan what are you doing
this year and what keeps you coming back
every single person without fail was
the people i come for the people i love
the people
i love the i feel like that what's the
zoology or whatever it was i i love the
people the people are the best uh but
madagascar that's the one but it was
they were
it was the people and that was like one
meeting people
but more specifically when people were
coming up like oh hey
alex or silk i love your videos like
that was so unexpected like i
i think at the beginning of def con my
channel was like 650 people
and or 650 subs and having anyone like
recognize you was
beyond anything but then it just kept
happening like
we five people then 10 people then 15
people it's like where are these how do
you
who finds this stuff like it's just um
it was so that was like my favorite part
of the conference anytime anyone came up
that's awesome
what was your favorite gator from on the
virtual side
uh so i love being able to interact with
folks again in our discord chat uh
moving folks over from the
the discord channel over to ours because
to be honest with you
we've been using discord for a really
long time so we've had a pretty good
community built up way before def con
jumped on that banned train so making
sure to direct folks saying hey we do
run a contest but you'll need to go to
this site because you're not allowed to
link to another uh discord that's a
no-no that'll get you a nice little slap
on the hand so it's a hey jump to our
website which then you click the link to
join our discord and then you get to
talk with even more folks and things are
fine um so jumping in and having the
chat room open to where if there are
questions i wanted to be asked some
people were streaming different talks
other folks were working on challenges
left and right um when we go physically
to the con typically you would have
people gathering around a couple
different tables and working together as
like a holon or what we call as a team
and
the virtualness of that worked out
pretty well in my opinion we had quite a
few new players from defcon this year
which was super super exciting um then
we had we also had some interesting
things where
we were the only ctf that was open
overnight and we were just using ctfd
engine because we went from our own
uh
built game engine over to ctfd
but that also meant that people thought
it was just a ctf
and that's why we made a couple of
videos and training and saying hey so
this is a learning platform here's how
you go through and do and i had to reach
out to a couple folks because all of a
sudden you look at the score charts and
it goes from everybody slowly arcing up
and gaining points to new people and
just go straight line going straight up
and it's like yeah okay you gotta dump
and number two
how many people are on your team oh we
have a team of five just boosting one
account it's like that's cool bro i'm
glad that you do other ctfs let me
explain to you how this is different
than other ctfs and it's like oh
okay so are we getting kicked out so we
can't play anymore no dude we're here
for you to learn keep on playing you
just won't be on the scoreboard to win
as an individual learning things they're
like that's cool let's go with it okay
it's definitely
it definitely seems like for contest
runners and for you know booth runners
and everything that it's it's definitely
a lot more difficult to get people
in and understanding your stuff when
you're not standing in front of them one
year
one year at darknet i all i did was
stand in front of the booth and just
tell people all
it's day like forced sentences and yep
it you know you can and you can get it
across in like two minutes but when
you're virtual
it's it's harder because you can't meter
people out you can't you know look to
see whether or not they're understanding
and then adjust your messaging things
like that it's tough it's
go ahead
but it absolutely was so i have gone
horse over the years doing the same
thing gallery to where i'm like since we
can't be there in person here's a quick
video so they land on the site here's a
video of a two-minute here's what we are
and what we do good luck and now jump
into the contest because last year was
like uh so everybody's virtual but with
the weird part about the the conference
being hybrid between physical and
virtual but most of the contests were
all virtual you had to have that info
booth ready to go
and if people hadn't joined your discord
yet they couldn't see you live talking
if they weren't on your twitch yet you
had to have something to be able to jump
off of
i mean um
well real quick and then we'll do some
quick introductions because there's some
new people here who don't necessarily
know us but
that's why dt said they are not doing
this again um they are going back to in
person you know covet allowing next year
because
he said it it's like planning two
conferences and it's just not it's not
feasible it burnt everyone out and i i
would not be surprised by that
well also
usually hundreds hundreds of goons there
was like 86 or something this year like
there was very few goons which was kind
of amazing too because there was a lot
of opportunity for like
bad shenanig shenanigans to get out of
hand and they even said like sock was
remarkably like this was a this was a
chill conference it was a good show and
i think that's it that's probably a good
way to describe it it was it was a chill
conference in preparation for def con
30 like yeah absolutely let's jump over
what give somebody let's
let's do some introductions while we're
doing that for for everyone else why
don't you tell us for the viewers why
you tell us what your favorite parts of
the conference was in the chat below so
gator go for it take it away
what was my favorite part of the
conference uh no introduction who the
hell are you
oh well
hi my name is gatorbite i helped run the
dark net contest with this year we went
and branded it dark net ng cause it's
our 10th year and we changed a lot of
things so if you're interested in going
and playing that i'm a part of the
community managers for the dc dark net
contest you can go check us out at dark
net dash ng dot network uh with that we
like to be able to go through and stream
on our holland network podcast on a
weekly basis and yeah we're constantly
going through and trying to teach folks
new things
that
pass it on over
yeah gallery why don't you kick us over
sure i am uh i'm gallery general
goofball going to defcon for like i
don't know over a decade now not a not
an old timer like like gulo but
uh yeah i joined the dark net uh five
years ago and got sucked in like
everyone else who joins the dark net uh
but since then i've been hanging out
with my good friends here on stream and
uh
picking it up um you know my background
is more on the vulnerability research
side of
the
cyber
house
[Laughter]
and i'm looking forward to i think next
year i'm going to try and do a talk at
defcon i'm going to submit a talk
i think it's time i think it's time
uh gulo what do you got going on
i am the great cornholio
and i just do whatever i'm i'm the comic
relief on here along with random
really really random stuff so it's
either highly intelligent or scar you
for life
and there's no in between i i'm i'm
definitely on one end of the spectrum or
the other all the time i i disagree with
that
because it can be end it can be highly
intelligent
i believe the most the most uh the most
clear uh clear way that i have heard
someone describe gulo is chaos monkey he
is the chaos monkey
that's the job title people want to give
to me the other one is that i am
adorafying
that is the only word
i love that
uh you're you're uh if you're watching
this on twitch or you're watching on
youtube it's uh it's my channel uh but
the story behind that is when i started
the channel i think in november i was
like oh i'm going to be another crypto
cat or i'm going to be another like
technical person and then i realized
that's a horrible idea because i did
that for work for like 15 years and i
have absolutely no want to like teach
pen testing so it started out with a
video of how uh gullo and gallery uh
made a
forgery of the defcon 27 badge a highly
technical forgery using a urinal cake
and a paper cup and random parts they
found around the conference and i did
this video and then we did a live stream
talking about the full story of how they
met the universe uh which was uh uh
interesting person who yelled out i am
the universe
and from the depths
yeah from the bushes uh did that story
and then it kind of like throughout now
a couple months now trying to find my my
niche and groove on youtube but
the streaming just kept up we i we use
it as a shameless excuse to hang out
with each other and i then do videos
during the week right now we're at a
weird part of my channel where i was
from that urinal cake video and other
ones i've done def con asked me to be a
goon uh and then i ended up doing as
many videos as i can gauri was there
holding the camera but getting in front
a few times and for his glamour shots as
well um and then i'm just shoving out
those videos uh my background is uh i
was a security tester in pen tester
forever and then left started my own
company with an awesome partner
and uh have been doing that for a few
years i
went to defcon since defcon 16
uh competed in darknet won a black badge
at both defcon and also one at girkon uh
and then realized i quickly wanted this
was a team i needed
cool people i wanted to uh hang out with
so i
joined the darknet team and then this
past year was my first year gooning at
def con so i think that's more
information than you care to know but
that's uh that's that's me
and you missing the background where you
can also go through and check out uh
silk's other videos in the past because
he's done interviews deep diving on some
of our different backgrounds as well so
lots to be able to go through and do
here we've been
friends and or going to defcon all
together this was the 10th year of the
dark net so we've been around each other
for at least that long and then when you
go to defcon you're kind of like hey i
don't remember your handle but i know
your face i see you every year sometimes
we even go drinking together or we do
some type of contest together so
uh let's go hang out again
actually the best the best part about go
ahead gulo go for it did silk deep dive
both of you
i don't remember that happening
no we haven't gotten to the rest of us
yet
oh it's just cake but you guys did that
you guys did the two hour
you guys did the two hour deep dive of
the
uh urinal cake badge the universe is
like this is
live
oh yeah this is not pre-recorded folks
hold on hold on you think we actually
prepare for this thing ahead of time
more than likely everyone joins two
minutes before a stream and you're like
okay we're doing this thing this is fine
it's fine that's good i usually don't
know what we're talking about until
i joined this stream 10 minutes before
it starts because i don't want to print
anything that's that's work do you want
to go off the cuff
um so actually
this is actually one of the best parts
about defcon and one of the things that
we talked about this a really long time
ago like what does defcon mean to you
and what surprises you and and i think
that this carries over to this year as
well which was i have a really nice
snippet on on uh twitter somewhere that
alex really likes which is that
defcon
somehow managed to take the hacker
manifesto and manifest that in person
right we don't have a face we don't have
a name we don't have a nationality we
don't have skin color we don't have a
gender unless you want to reveal all of
that
and at defcon
somehow they've managed to cultivate
that community where you can show up and
people accept you for whatever it is you
are whether you're a tech person or not
and because we're all there to just
learn you want to sit down and learn to
do hardware hacking or soldering
or you want to sit down and just learn
how to do packet capturing and packet
hacking and things like that or you know
just learn how to pick locks
no one don't get you could show up in a
fursuit and people do show up in a
fursuit sit down and learn these things
and people are gonna go that's awesome
let me show you how to do this or you
know why don't you come in and join our
community um and that's the that's the
magic of defcon the other magic of
defcon is that you learn people's
handles and you never learn their names
which is amazing because we're sitting
on stream we're all totally friendly
we've known each other for half a decade
i still can't remember gullo's first
name
in my head i'm sitting here going like
i've seen his resume i've you know i've
talked to him
and i've interviewed him but like i'm
like wait ah no he's just gullo like
he's just gullo that's those and that's
that's the way it is with everyone and
feel free to watch it feel free and feel
free to uh join gullo's only fans at
only google.com
onlygoola.com
so people still haven't found my live
streams yet i'm still waiting for you
guys to find when i go live and stream
because
no one technical has been on there it's
still just the standard people that work
on those websites
oh he teaches soldering
oh yeah i teach basic electronics and
soldering on
um like my free cams and chatterbait and
those so but you don't have to worry
about ever being taken offline like you
do with youtube and talking about a
hacking channel that's the nice thing
about those right so i'm i'm completely
down with what you're saying there gulo
uh yeah odyssey library something else
but
gallery hit it in the head though it's
like yeah it's funny we half of us don't
know each other's real names actually i
don't think anyone knew mine until now i
like hit my channel right on it so it's
right there for everyone to see
that was awkward i feel like there's a
story of how like weird that was going i
i know this has been my handle i always
knew at one point i was gonna attach to
my name i was never like worried about
that but it was totally weird going okay
my real name is gonna be out there which
also means my address is out there
should i be worried about like doxing or
something like that and gowrie said it
best he goes yes you know what
you have to be willing that if someone
finds your address he goes i'm like yeah
i go i guess i'm not really worried
about that yes just make sure they call
first so you can hang your ass out the
window when they drive by i'm like you
know what
gauri has been my person to keep me sane
through a lot of like the weird
weird things uh and also like he was the
one who encouraged me at def con he's
like no no don't just shove out content
get the content out there stop like
figuring out music and tweaks for it
just like get the content out there and
without him i would have not gotten like
the 20 videos i think we're gonna end up
having for def con this year like it's
it's just
it's ridiculous
next year we're gonna have i think next
year we're gonna have a ton more and and
and the whole goal this year for anyone
who wasn't watching the stream before we
went we talked about this whole goal
this year was
it's going to be mostly virtual most
people who attend they said most people
who attended was like 34 000 people
virtual and in person which means the
con was about as big quote-unquote as it
was before but everyone online was gonna
not get a chance to see what was going
on on the floor and on top of that even
if you are in person and it is that big
it's really difficult to see and talk to
everyone because you know the conference
organizers or the the
event organizers can only talk to so
many people throughout the weekend
otherwise there would be massive lines
for everything right
so i think it's really nice to be able
to take an uncut interview where we just
say hey you have 90 seconds or two
minutes to give your spiel the thing
that we've been doing at darknet for
years
um and and you know put it on video so
that people can get that introduction in
a really nice condensed way and say and
in future conferences that's what i'm
going to do like that's what i'm
interested in that's what i'm interested
in because the hardest thing to do at
def con is actually fun we like to say
find your people or find what you're
going to do because it's such a
whirlwind
and so i think the goal this year was to
figure out can we actually walk up to
these booths and say
tell us what you're doing because
oftentimes and this is this is actually
pretty unheard of right because
defcon does
is not nice to having video cameras
around right you have press badges you
have the media that show up no one
trusts cnn or fox or msnbc because every
time they cover the conference it's
always illegal hackers are hacking your
everything right and that's not what
i mean
i'm not gonna say those people don't
show up to defcon but the majority of
people who show up to defcon are there
to build community and there to share
what they're doing and figure out what
other people are doing it's it's
it's it's an exciting group to be a part
of and
it was nice to see uh i mean the the the
hardware hacking village the interview
we did with crawlik when we asked him
originally everyone there was like no no
no no no because they got the perception
of oh it's going to be an interview like
with media and then it clicked for them
they're like wait a minute it's silk and
gallery i know these people i i trust
them and it was amazing to see time
after time the number of times you're
like oh if you're not press and you're
just doing this for defcon yeah we're in
whereas they a lot of them didn't want
to have interviews with press because
they knew and gator knows this better
than any of us the press does a really
bad job they editorialize the hell out
of everything and they you know
you just plug in the usb and you dump
out all the codes
baby dump out all codes and they
misquote you and stuff
i'll give context to that one because i
think there's a little bit more context
which is like gator was interviewed by
the press and essentially he was talking
about our dark net badge it was really
cool it worked as an hid here i'll kick
it on over it works as an hid and you
would plug it in it would dump out codes
and it would type them into a notepad
like you'd plug it in and it would type
them all out and then you would input
those into the game and get points
and somehow the news like was like oh
yeah and you plug in any of these badges
into your computer and it dumps out all
the codes and they clipped it so it
looked like it was like this auto hack
device to steal all your information and
it was oh it was so gross
so the the title of that is still called
super hackers def con xyz no it's like
way
legitimately and i'm like oh god they'd
never grab my handle or anything else
with that because that was so pulled out
of context it's stupid so but instead of
people being fearful of what's going on
at def con on okay turn off your
bluetooth turn off your wi-fi turn off
your cell phone don't take anything with
you uh instead
we're dressing up like dinosaurs and
fighting each other
in the conference right and i put i'm
dropping links to this this is what the
def con community is man um you have two
people dressing up in dinosaur suits and
it's grifter and jason street and
they're fighting each other
like and that's
going gula
is so for the years i i think i've been
going to defcon the longest out of this
group i've been going since seven and
throughout the years there have been no
photo policies at def con you would get
shunned bands yelled at if there were if
there were photos taken but
next year's going to be weird because
gallery and silk are still talking about
recording things and
it's going to be a weird game of tag
where i try to run from them because if
they're recording i can't
generally release things with statute of
limitations in place because they're
just doing it live
well yeah and
i'll go in here here uh yeah i'll jump
in here which is there's a couple things
going on here it's like when we've been
i mean i've been pushing up videos and
we've been recording like this is not
like like kind of like
like just like slowly
gauri is sitting there with a full ball
blown gimbal like it is there is no way
you are like you're hidden from it now
we learned a ton while doing it like
certain things like threw off auto focus
on this camera like masks i wasn't
expecting that audio while it was really
good at sometimes like having a separate
mic like learned a lot of technical
stuff around that like iso and stuff
which i was like okay i'm learning with
this but like it was very obvious we
were recording full-blown gimbal so like
and everyone everyone always had the
option no one actually did this but if
anyone would have came up and said like
hey i don't want to have my face on
there okay cool bam delete move on to
the next one
um
i i kind of like there's some prep work
that went with the photo goons like
cannibal who kind of like prepped me for
like here's but like what was so cool is
we had some of these connections
crawling by far was the coolest one who
like didn't want to be in front of the
camera and then all of a sudden he's
like oh yeah it's it's silicon gallery
of course i'll be there and i'm like
if you want me to delete it if we do it
you don't like it we'll delete it we'll
edit it like but it was that one was the
thing which was so unexpected for me at
def con
was everyone's willingness to jump in
front and and tell their story and share
their passions
that's actually where i kind of want to
do over because the first couple videos
i did was all about like the hat con
stuff like with these cool like hardware
hacking like
rigs they put together and hearing them
just passionately talk about it like
that one was by far the coolest part of
my def con but yeah it's these it didn't
happen in a bubble like we were like
sneaking going up there you know and you
think it's going to be my face on cam
that you should be worried about
but we've already seen other body parts
cool
oh gosh you should
go next year if
if if you have another another stupid
secret challenge which requires me to
read braille off your backside again
i'm i might have to record it actually i
was going to say i'm not doing it but
i'll totally record it and put it online
for everyone
the only thing i was going to say was
the other thing and defcon definitely
impressed us upon us when they knew we
were taking video and doing all of that
there there are rules right and it the
rules are if anyone says please delete
that you delete it right there and
that's the end of it and two is you know
you don't try to be sneaky you don't try
to take photos at anyone anything like
that so
not only was i trying to be blatantly
obvious as to when the camera was on i
was also trying to keep the camera
focused on the individuals we were
talking to and avoid capturing as much
of the background as possible to you
know for for the sake of the conference
goers because not everyone wants that um
i do want to rewind a little bit and say
like while you know defcon is
transformed into this um
into this you know publicly acceptable
place for for hackers to be themselves
i would still not go
and connect your personal laptop to the
open wi-fi the secure wi-fi no problem
still wouldn't connect it to the open
wi-fi uh there's definitely quite a bit
of nastiness going on on that and that's
still the most dangerous network in the
world
that was something which always would
just crack me up is they do a like a
full disclosure and a
uh i think they call it a transparency
report both for like uh
any events that happen at def con but
the network they said it was like
on-site uh like 15 of attendees
connected to the secure wi-fi in 85
percent connected to the open wi-fi like
for whatever reason like that's
like that's a terrible idea like it's
all like it's not there's no host
isolation everyone can see each other's
devices like
i
mean maybe it's kind of just like you
know you're in vegas so let's let's
connect and see what happens
oh yeah i definitely did at one point
open my phone and click
defcon
open and then she's like oh crap turn it
off turn it off don't do that don't do
that
so hilarious
it is vegas it's like going to some of
those
questionable dark alleys and catching an
std it's you'll just catch an std from
the one clock
oh my gosh
in with that that's probably where
oh and that and that's probably a good
place to just close it on up uh there's
so much more to talk about with def con
there really is like both
the good the bad the ugly i'm sure we'll
talk more about it next week as well we
stream every week uh around 11 o'clock
saturday next week unfortunately i think
it's going to be changing but i will do
an announcement on on twitter and i'll
make sure to schedule it nice and early
with that though and stds on the wi-fi
gator why don't you
close us on up here
everywhere
oh no
make sure to keep the gadgets dry you
want to keep the gadgets dry
um so i'm looking forward to talking
about the different badges that were
also this year as well because there
were some really cool makers this year
who were able to not only do it in
person but also online so look forward
to talking about that i really enjoyed
virtually seeing and interacting with
everybody virtually at defcon
love our players of the
darknet contest i hope that you guys are
still out there learning we actually
moved things to where it
it we had some interesting challenges
with it but everybody worked with it
really well we were able to pivot and be
able to take off from there and we've
now got some of those
contests and those quests online in a
year-round format so if you want more
information uh you'll check out our
twitter uh check out the the video that
we linked which you can find at uh
darknet dash ng.network and we'll hope
to see you guys online with that make
sure to go love your hacker family
gallery
yeah on my end uh
wow
got caught off guard there because i was
interacting with uh with the cat
uh yeah if if you think we're done with
def con uh we're not obviously alex has
quite a backlog of videos and interviews
that we're gonna be uploading it's going
to be great but we're also going to be
having
more interviews being done here soon
we're going to be i i'm not going to i'm
not going to steal alex's thunder but
we've been talking to a number of groups
that we didn't get a chance to talk to
at the con
and uh we're going to be doing some
stuff so we'll announce those coming up
in the future and if you have specific
questions that you want to ask
you send them on over hit alex up on
twitter or send them a message um stick
around for for the content on youtube
and twitch
yeah the community tab should be open
with a thousand subs so i'll be able to
throw it on there which i'm really
excited about uh mk factor the designer
of the defcon badge uh we'll be on the
channel at some point and we'll be able
to have an interview of him so like
there's a couple other ones too but that
one i'm freaking pumped about gula what
do you got for us
so
next year if i'm actually in person it's
going to be a little bit different than
the usual thing
um
i i i promise not to break all the laws
uh just a few of
them i may or may not get diseased from
working on some of my challenges next
year but it should be fun
oh man i think thank you for joining
guys uh i am i've been just pumped i've
been i've been enjoying deaf kind of and
enjoying the coverage i am so happy that
so many of you join the stream uh we'll
be pushing out tons of defcon videos
along the way but man i am looking
forward to defcon 30 time to get
together as a big hacker family ah i'm
pumped and as always thank you for
joining
in hack on
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