american citizen must have
an equal right to vote administration of
elections
is primarily state and local
responsibility
whether you voted for the very first
time
or waited in line for a very long time
by the way we have to fix that
hi welcome to highs you're not wide
margins this is brianna london
i am the county clerk from county
missouri and with me is my
co-host eric faye director of elections
in st louis county missouri
and we are really excited to talk to you
today about
our podcast which is high turnout wide
margins but also how we've been trying
to use it to fight this information
with the nuts and bolts of elections
administration over this
past year
so at the end of last year as we were
going through
the end of the 2020 election and
election officials were feeling
born down and starved for
contact other than zoom meetings because
we're used to having these really good
conferences where we can share all this
information
we can share best practices and we can
actually commiserate on what we've been
going through
all of these news articles have been
coming out about
how much pressure we had all been under
how many people were leaving the
profession how we were going to help
bring new people
in and yet at the same time we hadn't
really created a space
in the digital world to try to share any
of that information
or talk about things that you can do in
your own office to help make your job
easier or more efficient
or what's happening in neighboring
states that you might
benefit from if you brought it into your
own jurisdiction
and so we thought about the idea of um
well maybe
maybe this information does exist maybe
it's just out there in the podcast forum
there's a lot of people that put up
podcasts but it turns out
there really wasn't anybody and the
reaction
was extremely positive and optimistic
that it would be very beneficial if we
did do that
and so we kind of took that and ran with
it and
at the end of december and beginning of
january we launched our first episode
so why are we doing this
well education community and
we're nerds uh brianna has even
made uh high turnout wide margin swag
and uh i think one of them says i'm an
election nerd right
something like that it does yeah yeah so
um
it's i think i think we said in our
first episode
um it's for all these reasons but it's
also for kind of selfish reasons that
you know we just want to talk to people
we're interested in we want to learn
from them
i think as i might have mentioned you
know an election administration
we really like to employ the case method
copy and steal everything
so the more we can learn from each other
the more we can copy and steal from each
other and use
because unlike private industry
in election administration we're not
competing with each other
we you know to the extent that
uh other people succeed you know we
succeed it makes the whole community of
election administrators better
when when more people are are succeeding
and
and doing new things and innovative
things so
uh the podcast i think at least for
for me and for us has has achieved that
largely and
we hope to continue doing it um
and i think brianna has some great
audio clips as we move through this
presentation just to kind of
illustrate uh some of these points
so when we started this were we
expecting that all this was going to be
you know educational community oriented
i mean
maybe we weren't really sure what we
were getting into it's been
extremely fun and very educational but
not always exactly what we expected it
to be
but what have we learned since we
started doing it
one that narrative is absolutely
everything
i mean i think it'd be really
interesting just to go through all of
the logistics
and that this is what's involved and we
have
you know two part-time people you know
who have to go through
all of this mail and we have to sort all
this down we have to check
the voter registration list and look at
this voter registration list this is how
it works
i i think people love those stories and
i think you know quite frankly because
of all the misinformation only a
terrible terrible terrible
attacks against election officials
you know non-partisan election officials
i think it's important that you really
have to
come out and tell your story this is who
we are you know we
are public servants we are
the people who are trying to make
democracy work
so pam fessler who just recently retired
from npr was one of our more recent
guests but she really illustrated a
point we heard
over and over again especially when
we're talking about trying to combat
disinformation
trying to get good information out there
continuing to be
trusted sources of information as the
election
office for our respective jurisdictions
and that's that you know it doesn't cut
it to just say
here's where the voter registration
deadline is here's how you request an
absentee ballot i mean you really do
need to tell the story of the office
it's something that we've taken very
literally and in some ways it's been a
very meta thing that we are telling
these stories through this podcast
and hopefully helping to further that
narrative for other people that
um need to be able to share this
information and
do it in a way that's compelling enough
that people don't just tune it out and
say
you know i know how to vote i know when
to register
but there's nothing that's really
pulling them into why it's still
important that we do what we do
and why it's important that they can
feel that their ballot is being counted
that everything
is safe and secure and that elections
are being run with integrity
and with security i think it's also
important to
point out that election administrators
by and large are not
media hounds you know i think a lot of
election administrators are used to kind
of toiling in anonymity
um they appreciate whatever you know
little recognition they might get from
time to time but um
usually they're on the news around
election time
trying to get out that that kind of
basic information and then
you know they go behind the scenes after
that but what 2020 showed everybody was
that
whether election administrators like it
or not they're going to be thrust into
the spotlight
and to the point that brianna just made
pam fessler was very
strident in her belief that election
administrators need to
really try to tell their story and and
make it compelling
um so that was a really great takeaway i
think from that
we also mean we knew this as election
authorities but
um it really
it really became crystal clear as we
were talking to more local election
authorities
how much this whole process in this
whole field runs on community
and as eric was saying this is an
extremely collaborative field it is not
one where
you know we're trying to forward
information from each other we're trying
to be
like the best one everybody is working
on a common goal we're all trying to
serve our voters in the best way that we
can
and so it really becomes this kind of
family oriented group and if you think
about everything that we went through in
2020
and all of the different stresses that
we had just as people not just as
election authorities it's very hard to
not be able to have that kind of
camaraderie um
and so we've learned just how important
that is
uh it to the profession itself not just
to ourselves but to the profession
itself
it's just fun to get around a chat
there's just something about
when you eat or drink together and
you're just
you're just letting your guard down a
little bit or formalities go away
you talk to whoever you want it really
is
i used to think that that was a waste of
time now i think that's
more important than showing up to the
meetings
and uh that's ricky hatch from weber
county utah
uh ricky is um
uh and and on the executive board of igo
the international association
association of government and officials
he also is very active in naco national
association of counties
and as you saw he just made the point
that collaborating
and just kind of sharing stories is a
big part of election administration
and i would i would agree with him and i
think many election administrators would
that
just uh kind of having that camaraderie
and being able to
share stories is is valuable and
you know making what you do a little bit
better just to learn what other people
are doing but it's also kind of
cathartic
and that just uh it's just like i think
in many professions that
um you really you can't understand it
unless you're in it
and and so for election administrators
um being able to um talk to each other
and and share those stories and our our
podcast is i think just a little
a little part of that but also being
together at conferences and things
makes a big difference so that's i think
we hope our podcast is kind of filling
up a little bit of that void especially
while
people couldn't really go to conferences
and um
but even even when things you know go
back to some more in person things
we hope to keep it going because i think
it still feel
uh fills a need amongst election
administrators
we've also learned which is not as
positive but definitely something that
that i feel like we've all felt is that
the field is simultaneously energized
and demoralized we've probably talked to
an equal number of people that feel like
you know wow this is really our time to
shine we have this opportunity
to teach people about how elections are
being administered
to really um tie into the fact that more
people than ever are paying attention to
how elections are being run and that's
really wonderful but at the same time
um many of our colleagues
are are getting threats issued at them
and are feeling pressure not just from
their own voters but voters from
other jurisdictions people from all
across the country if they're being
targeted in certain states and things
like that
and it makes it incredibly hard uh
especially like how eric said a lot of
us
work in the background where you never
thought that this was going to be
a job that thrust you into the spotlight
and
and made you a target in a lot of ways
so there are people that have really
looked at that and said well this is an
opportunity and then there's people that
are
leaving the field because it's that
difficult right now and it's just not
worth it when you think about all of the
tasks and uh responsibilities that our
offices have not all of us are just
election authorities there's lots of
other things that our offices have to do
and in a lot of places elections are
actually a very small part of the job so
if you think about
people that are trying to do you know 50
things for their county just to keep the
lights on and payroll happening
and elections taking up more and more of
their time and their energy
it's just not it's just not sustainable
and details matter i mean the people out
here who know me and hear that said oh
well that's paul's mantra you know
that's a good play i've always heard
paul
talk about and that's what i would say
to anybody wanting to get in this job
and get in the j
and once you're in it to understand the
details you know and i know plenty of
folks who've gone into the job in a
partisan manner
who understand after they're in there
wow you know i'm serving everybody
and i really have to tone down my
partisanship and i think
that um you know i think if they do that
they'll find
you know that the the job is very
rewarding
that you're serving your voters uh it's
very difficult right now under
you know these circumstances that people
are um attacking
you know uh election officials for one
thing or the other
uh you have to have thick skin but i
think if you keep your honesty your
integrity and professionalism
you'll do a great job and uh more than
ever we
really need good people in these jobs
we have during the course of this
podcast
we've talked to several election
administrators that were thrust into the
spotlight
uh last year you know i think of people
like tina barton from michigan
and al schmidt from philadelphia
joseph kirk from georgia and uh
what paul just said there was a common
thread in what all those
folks said to us that um you know
they came under intense scrutiny last
year but they were very proud
of what they had done they all felt that
that they had conducted themselves in a
professional and manner with integrity
um and that you know they
they were certainly frustrated and
maybe a little downtrodden from the way
they were treated in some cases but
they were proud of their staffs they
were proud of their poll workers
and they were proud of all the work that
they had put in and that at the end of
the day
you know after the recounts and audits
which
which they had all done on their own
volition
uh you know proved out that uh at least
in their cases that the 2020
the november 2020 election was was very
accurate and uh very honest so
um i again i just think
having those conversations with people
that had been through some of the worst
of it last year
um you know reinforced how
important it is to uh to stick around in
this
in this profession and and to find uh
more
good people to do it and and that
for some people um you certainly can
blame them for for looking to other
career paths and
a number of people are doing that but um
i
i still think there are a lot of good
folks around that are gonna keep doing
it for years to come
and i think these are the lessons that
we're trying to impart you know
this is not we didn't start this podcast
thinking we would have
widespread appeal i mean this is a
podcast that we designed for
other election officials and so
with our takeaways we're hoping that
other election officials have very
similar takeaways and are
um at least feeling like they're a that
they're not alone but b
that um there is still energy in the
field there are still things that
we have um that we're doing very well in
that there's a lot of people in our
corner
and having that
sense of pride is something that is not
unique to any particular local election
authority i think everybody has that
uh it's one of the things that draws
people in one of the big things
that uh we learn when we're going
through all of these is we always ask
people how they ended up in elections in
the first place
so the first question we always ask is
you know did you did you come into this
intentionally did you fall into it and
you know 99 of the people never planned
to be local election authorities there
was something that happened that either
landed them there like a part-time
position that they decided they just
fell in love with
or they were working in another field
and then
this position happened to open up and so
they ended up working there and realized
how much they loved it but
everybody that we've talked to it really
draws you in
and like eric said it
it makes you want to stick around and it
helps when you know that other people
are all working towards that same goal
too
so what do we do i mean we're we're here
presenting at def con not to just talk
about how
fun it is to be an election official but
also to talk about
you know we've had this uh terrible
dismiss information campaign that has
been going on
all throughout 2020 that's continuing on
through 2021 and we're looking at
going into 2022 and what are we gonna do
um
and and hopefully in one way putting all
this information out there and
demystifying some of local election
administration and just talking to
people and humanizing them is one way to
combat that
but the other thing we can do is
collaborate
you know it's something that we
naturally do anyway but what we've seen
over this past year has also been huge
collaboration between
industry academic academics
people that had not necessarily all been
in the same room
and asking the same questions and trying
to reach the same goals are now
having all of these synthesizing
uh meetings and discussions and
conferences to try to get everybody on
the same page because we're all fighting
now
the same enemy which is disinformation
it's also really important one of the
things that we talked about with
a lot of our guests is filling the space
with that narrative i mean narrative
is one of the ways that you can do that
but at this
particular time i mean it's 2021 there's
not
a ton of elections that are happening
there are a lot of places that have
local elections and things like that but
it's not a november
2020 general election it's not something
that's on the top of everybody's mind
that they have to go vote they have to
pick
who they want to represent them this is
the time where
we as local election authorities can do
that collaboration
work on planning out for 2022 and start
trying to be proactive and not just
reactive i mean that's something that
came through a lot too
is as we're preparing for future
elections
we can do as much preparation as we want
i mean that's in our dna
is to make sure that we are 100 planned
with all sorts of redundancies in case
something happens
uh in the election but we're not always
great at predicting exactly what that
common enemy is going to be
at any given election so you can follow
that
trajectory you know 2016 out of that
came cyber security efforts we started
working on cyber security efforts we
thought that's what it was going to be
in 2018 2020 and we were all prepared
for that we've done
fantastic work and federal government's
done fantastic work and defcon has done
fantastic work in furthering that cyber
security
but then here comes this whole
disinformation campaign
that really ended up filling the entire
space and we need to take some of that
back we need to start reclaiming that
for
the trustworthy and accurate and honest
information
so that that's what voters hear i hope
um if nothing else uh
you know what comes out of everything
that's transpired since uh
last november's election that at least
people who have
good intentions once they learn that
elections aren't being you know run
by the venezuelan government they will
actually start to learn about some of
the nuts and bolts of election
administration and
if as pam fessler mentioned if if we can
tell our story or if people other people
can
uh help to tell our story that um
you know at least some people in the
media in
in um academia and things like that
start to understand
some of the challenges and other things
that we have
um you know i i think one another thing
pam fessler mentioned that
was very interesting that when she you
know back in the early 2000s when she
would kind of cover the voting beat the
election administration beat
um she might be the only reporter
there at a national association of
secretaries of state meeting or
something like that
and now there are you know dozens
sometimes so
i like to you know think there's a
silver lining to all this so if there's
a
silver lining to this i hope maybe
that's what it is that especially some
folks in the media are really
starting to learn uh how elections are
run because it's an ever-evolving field
like brianna was just saying that
you know we we had uh as election
administrators really had to bone up on
cyber security
and start to take that more seriously
after the the 2016 elections and and now
miss and dis and mal information are
things that
are uh in the vocabulary of all election
administrators and
and that's something i think we're going
to get better at as time goes on
and finally i think listening is still
incredibly important i mean we can talk
all day about how local election
authorities talk to each other and we
collaborate but it's also important to
listen
to our voters it's important to listen
to our own stakeholders because at the
end of the day
we are a public service oriented
administration so you know we make sure
that
everything is ready for election day we
make sure that everything
is prepared for uh being able to cast
ballots and all of that but we have to
listen to
our voters about what they have concerns
about what they have questions about
and not be defensive when somebody does
try to get us to
explain more of the process part of
i think it being a very
administrative field is that we're not
used to being asked a lot of questions
about how things work and it can
be taken in a defensive way and so
listening
and trying to um you know really take to
heart that
voters deserve to have that information
and we can put that information out
there and it's actually beneficial to
everybody it's beneficial to us too
it helps combat some of that bad
information out there
is something that's really important
that
hopefully as more
local election authorities are thinking
about what they can do
moving into 2022
wanting feedback and listening to that
feedback is one of those things
yeah i hope that's another good thing
that comes out of
the mess that you know the post-election
mess that 2020 was
that election administrators
become a little more open to
how things are presented to the public
and
how the public can come and see what
they do
as brianna just mentioned you know
election administrators by and large
they weren't
used to a lot of people uh
uh coming to their office and wanting to
see this and
and understand you know how do you
process the ballots what happens here
i mean it used to be years ago we would
shout from the rooftops this is
you know what we do this is how things
work uh
nobody cared nobody was interested in
coming to the election office and
watching
ballots be processed or audits take
place they were still taking place
it was all being done but you know very
few people cared so
now that um it's it's come to the
forefront
that you know party challengers the
media whoever they may
they may want to be a part of this
process
hopefully election administrators find a
way to
make them part of the process and and
how they how they show how their jobs
are done
and that it leads to again more
understanding last we just wanted to
thank everyone for
for listening and for uh allowing us to
speak at def con if you are interested
in listening to the podcast it's on
any podcast uh distributor so
whichever your favorite one is it will
be on there and we're also on twitter
but you can also always reach out to us
and ask any questions
one of the things that also
has come to light is how much local
election officials
really don't mind talking to people that
want to know more about it i mean it has
not been hard for us to find
guests necessarily because everybody
wants to talk about what they do
and um we are very appreciative to
everybody that has been
a guest on the show and really
appreciate their
sharing their experience and their
information